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19 Comments → “Our original submission images”
OJ
1 year ago
I like it and can see it working in any city where there’s a concentration of double deckers. Actually, I’d like to see it in the countryside where there’s not so much visual “noise” from advertising and therefore may have more of an impact.
Quick question – who controls access to the input – is it open to all or is it by invitation/curation?
There is a curated component in the run-up to the Olympics, and potentially ongoing curation, but really it’s about the public submissions and the public voting mechanisms that drive the best to the ‘top’ and out to the canvas.
Rich, we’re working in both maintenance as well as actual hardware construction to cover that side of things as best we can. The thing is that we *will* be faced with obstacles: what you said, Clearchannel, health and safety/load bearing conformity, vandalism etc, so there’s lots and lots of work still to go into the project.
@OJ yeah – The flow diagram covers all the submission process, along with moderation and that side of things.
A cool idea; lots of challenges but isn’t that usually the way with anything worthwhile
Remember reading about civic & social engagement in Manchester using text messaging (Blink media?) and this is an exciting step on from there.
I think getting advertisment consent may be a hurdle to overcome too. Have you looked into this and if so what did any advice you were given say/contain. Just interessted to know. Thanks.
Hi Rhys, great question. It’s actually a central question to the proposition for a few reasons. The first (and one that most people don’t know) is that both clearchannel and JCDecaux have a very cool business model. Basically, they have a relationship with each individual council; the council says how many bus stops they need, and of what sort and where, and the street furniture provider then builds, installs and provides maintenance for X period of time. In return (you guessed it), they then get to exploit the advertising inventory.
The second main reason for working closely with these providers is that the bus.tops construction is entirely modular, and works directly from existing bus stop schematics to limit build costs and stay within strict build paramaters (not least health and safety and load bearing).
This might not exactly answer your question (I am talking with JCDecaux at the moment), but Im pleased you asked it because it’s *exactly* the right question to ask when seriously considering a project on this scale.
Thanks, bustops (I’m assuming it’s Alfie in disguise?!).
I work within planning and know how much of a pain obtaining advertisement consent can be, especially if your dealing with, potentially, 30 or so individual London Boroughs. But it seems as if the hard work has already been done As always, get everything confirmed in writing beforehand!
I’ve been told Council’s in London often take a tough stance to advertisements without consent, often going straight for prosecution rather than the laborious enforcement procedures.
I didn’t know about this element of the issue with advertising and councils. I guess in terms of the ‘hard part’, working closely with the street furniture providers is the best first step, so we’re at least, I hope, on the right path. I’d definitely appreciate any other insights you could share from your experience in planning.
How are they going to be powered? Because both possibilities have drawbacks you’re going to have to overcome. How is the data going to get onto them? How often will they be changed? How many people are going to have to be employed for installation, maintenance, repair etc? How long for? Who’s going to pay for that?
Ideally by using already electrified bus stops. Alternatively by having to actually go through the electrification process. Because we are aiming only to use 64 shelters (2 in each London Borough) we’re reasonably confident we’ll be able to work with existing electrified shelters, but of course both avenues need to be explored as a matter of rigour.
How is the data going to get onto them?
A modem is the thinking so far. Small and cheap linux box built into the structure itself is where we’re at in the thinking but we haven’t yet had the resource to spend the time investigating the best way to a) write the data to the LED’s and b) receive the information. Conceivably all the possible data needed for even the most complex drawing might be able to be sent in a series of sms messages containing the data.
How often will they be changed?
Which do you mean, the LED’s themselves? Ideally only every 5 years! That said, we just don’t know yet, that’s why if the idea is part of the fund’s shortlist a £5k development fund is provided to get into the detail.
How many people are going to have to be employed for installation, maintenance, repair etc?
The way I see the project working long term is rather than a “company” responsible for these artifacts it would be a series of contracts with specialist providers that would do all the work save the actual for the Olympics bit where creative oversight is needed. For example, maintenance of bus stops are the responsibility of the provider (so generally clearchannel or JCDecaux), so part of actually figuring out how things will work will be having the conversation with them about whether maintenance of the bus.tops can come into their remit, and working out a way for the project to provide commensurate value to them.
How long for? Who’s going to pay for that?
Again, we’re not sure! Ideally of course I’d love for this to be something which becomes an inherent part of London, and after this original purpose maybe finds others. Figuring out how the project finds a sustainable model is part of the larger process, and perhaps we’ll find that it has a set lfietime. The winning entrant for the London fund can access a pot of up to £500k, which is a good start point, so I’m at least hopeful that given the chance to explore the possibility of making it a reality, those involved will all be motivated to find ways to make the project work and maybe even give it a future.
Essentially, all the questions you’re asking are the ones we will need to answer if we’re shortlisted.
Have you considered making the surface /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ corrugated (like a lenticular thingy or a factory roof)? LEDs on the side facing the bus route, solar panels on side facing away.
Means that dirt washes off as it’s not flat and it’s self powered.
One of the major constraints when working with this street-furniture is that we are not allowed to in any way affect the structure. So no drilling, no afixing that breaches the fundamental structure. So we're working with clamping and industrial-strength Velcro for the affixings. The other issue with your idea is that TFL are extremely wary of *encouraging* people to climb onto the roof's of shelters to investigate (health and safety innit) and so using the roof's only seems a good compromise as they wont be visible from street-level. That said, using the roof's is a big part of how we want people to feel when they see them – kind of WTF? Really were building on the guerilla potato and turf art seen on lots of Hackney routes.
I meant merely the top surface of whatever is clamped to the roof, but I can see the point of making it LOOK like it’s an integral part of the original roof surface, but that happens to be clamped/velcro’d to the top.
Islington routes seem to merely collect rubbish so clearly you Hackney people are lucky
OJ
1 year ago
I like it and can see it working in any city where there’s a concentration of double deckers. Actually, I’d like to see it in the countryside where there’s not so much visual “noise” from advertising and therefore may have more of an impact.
Quick question – who controls access to the input – is it open to all or is it by invitation/curation?
Alfie
1 year ago
There is a curated component in the run-up to the Olympics, and potentially ongoing curation, but really it’s about the public submissions and the public voting mechanisms that drive the best to the ‘top’ and out to the canvas.
OJ
1 year ago
Ah, I see. Cool.
That’s probably all in the flow diagram isn’t it?
Can’t quite read it at this resolution.
Rich
1 year ago
Of course in London it’s just going to end up covered in pigeon shit, shoes, kebabs and cans. The cost of maintenance is going to be pretty massive.
OJ
1 year ago
Which is why they should do it in Norwich instead, clearly Rich. No kebabs in Norwich
Alfie
1 year ago
Rich, we’re working in both maintenance as well as actual hardware construction to cover that side of things as best we can. The thing is that we *will* be faced with obstacles: what you said, Clearchannel, health and safety/load bearing conformity, vandalism etc, so there’s lots and lots of work still to go into the project.
@OJ yeah – The flow diagram covers all the submission process, along with moderation and that side of things.
JT
1 year ago
A cool idea; lots of challenges but isn’t that usually the way with anything worthwhile
Remember reading about civic & social engagement in Manchester using text messaging (Blink media?) and this is an exciting step on from there.
JokerXL
1 year ago
Cool! that’s so clever but, just a little but, gets very dirty, very quickly, wouldn’t you think?
Alfie
1 year ago
There would be a maintenance/cleaning element to the ongoing project costs Joker.
Rhys
1 year ago
I think getting advertisment consent may be a hurdle to overcome too. Have you looked into this and if so what did any advice you were given say/contain. Just interessted to know. Thanks.
Bus-Tops
1 year ago
Hi Rhys, great question. It’s actually a central question to the proposition for a few reasons. The first (and one that most people don’t know) is that both clearchannel and JCDecaux have a very cool business model. Basically, they have a relationship with each individual council; the council says how many bus stops they need, and of what sort and where, and the street furniture provider then builds, installs and provides maintenance for X period of time. In return (you guessed it), they then get to exploit the advertising inventory.
The second main reason for working closely with these providers is that the bus.tops construction is entirely modular, and works directly from existing bus stop schematics to limit build costs and stay within strict build paramaters (not least health and safety and load bearing).
This might not exactly answer your question (I am talking with JCDecaux at the moment), but Im pleased you asked it because it’s *exactly* the right question to ask when seriously considering a project on this scale.
Rhys
1 year ago
Thanks, bustops (I’m assuming it’s Alfie in disguise?!).
I work within planning and know how much of a pain obtaining advertisement consent can be, especially if your dealing with, potentially, 30 or so individual London Boroughs. But it seems as if the hard work has already been done
As always, get everything confirmed in writing beforehand!
I’ve been told Council’s in London often take a tough stance to advertisements without consent, often going straight for prosecution rather than the laborious enforcement procedures.
Bus-Tops
1 year ago
I am indeed in disguise
I didn’t know about this element of the issue with advertising and councils. I guess in terms of the ‘hard part’, working closely with the street furniture providers is the best first step, so we’re at least, I hope, on the right path. I’d definitely appreciate any other insights you could share from your experience in planning.
Rich
1 year ago
How are they going to be powered? Because both possibilities have drawbacks you’re going to have to overcome. How is the data going to get onto them? How often will they be changed? How many people are going to have to be employed for installation, maintenance, repair etc? How long for? Who’s going to pay for that?
admin
1 year ago
How are they going to be powered?
Ideally by using already electrified bus stops. Alternatively by having to actually go through the electrification process. Because we are aiming only to use 64 shelters (2 in each London Borough) we’re reasonably confident we’ll be able to work with existing electrified shelters, but of course both avenues need to be explored as a matter of rigour.
How is the data going to get onto them?
A modem is the thinking so far. Small and cheap linux box built into the structure itself is where we’re at in the thinking but we haven’t yet had the resource to spend the time investigating the best way to a) write the data to the LED’s and b) receive the information. Conceivably all the possible data needed for even the most complex drawing might be able to be sent in a series of sms messages containing the data.
How often will they be changed?
Which do you mean, the LED’s themselves? Ideally only every 5 years! That said, we just don’t know yet, that’s why if the idea is part of the fund’s shortlist a £5k development fund is provided to get into the detail.
How many people are going to have to be employed for installation, maintenance, repair etc?
The way I see the project working long term is rather than a “company” responsible for these artifacts it would be a series of contracts with specialist providers that would do all the work save the actual for the Olympics bit where creative oversight is needed. For example, maintenance of bus stops are the responsibility of the provider (so generally clearchannel or JCDecaux), so part of actually figuring out how things will work will be having the conversation with them about whether maintenance of the bus.tops can come into their remit, and working out a way for the project to provide commensurate value to them.
How long for? Who’s going to pay for that?
Again, we’re not sure! Ideally of course I’d love for this to be something which becomes an inherent part of London, and after this original purpose maybe finds others. Figuring out how the project finds a sustainable model is part of the larger process, and perhaps we’ll find that it has a set lfietime. The winning entrant for the London fund can access a pot of up to £500k, which is a good start point, so I’m at least hopeful that given the chance to explore the possibility of making it a reality, those involved will all be motivated to find ways to make the project work and maybe even give it a future.
Essentially, all the questions you’re asking are the ones we will need to answer if we’re shortlisted.
Mike
11 months ago
Have you considered making the surface /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ corrugated (like a lenticular thingy or a factory roof)? LEDs on the side facing the bus route, solar panels on side facing away.
Means that dirt washes off as it’s not flat and it’s self powered.
But hugely costlier to fabricate. Damn.
Alfie Dennen
11 months ago
Hallo mate, so-long-time!
One of the major constraints when working with this street-furniture is that we are not allowed to in any way affect the structure. So no drilling, no afixing that breaches the fundamental structure. So we're working with clamping and industrial-strength Velcro for the affixings. The other issue with your idea is that TFL are extremely wary of *encouraging* people to climb onto the roof's of shelters to investigate (health and safety innit) and so using the roof's only seems a good compromise as they wont be visible from street-level. That said, using the roof's is a big part of how we want people to feel when they see them – kind of WTF? Really were building on the guerilla potato and turf art seen on lots of Hackney routes.
Mike
11 months ago
I meant merely the top surface of whatever is clamped to the roof, but I can see the point of making it LOOK like it’s an integral part of the original roof surface, but that happens to be clamped/velcro’d to the top.
Islington routes seem to merely collect rubbish so clearly you Hackney people are lucky
Planner Reads » Blog Archive » artists wanted for bus-tops
11 months ago
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